Originally by: Shamis Orzoz

---

Originally by: Jim McGregor

---

Maelstrom

Bonuses:

* 5% large projectile weapon rate of fire per level
* 7.5% shield boost amount per level


I never did like the Cyclone, but hopefully this boat will be more useful. 8 projectiles is definently for the win.

---

Where are these stats coming from? Did I miss a big sticky or something?

---

Originally by: Kael D'mende

---

Edited by: Kael D''mende on 25/07/2006 19:29:53
Wondering how accurate this info is ?

http://evegames.hostingbig.com/eve/data/Ships/Battleships/Tier3@~32;Minmtar.xml


edit: linky broke the link.. so copy paste etc..

---

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

---

Made a boo boo. Should have typed 8/6/6. A bit strange for Minmatar to have more mids than Raven, isnt it?

---

Originally by: M00dy

---

Imagine the whinage.
8/6/6 would be so... bleh.

---

Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol

---

Edited by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol on 25/07/2006 20:02:18
Edited by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol on 25/07/2006 20:01:33
pretty sure its going to be 6/6 while caldari is 7/5 and galante 5/7 :P

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

Originally by: Crange

---

So temp for fleet mael for small gangs and phoon fer solo?

---

mealstrom is slow,

so it will be:

Tempest for Fleets
Typhoon for ganks
Meal for Carebearing

---

Originally by: steveid

---

With the bonus' and slot layouts of this ship you can basically tank sentry guns in low sec solo forever. I find that very worrying personally. Add onto that the possibility of ecm and you've got yourself a kick ass solo pwnmobile. Looks to me horribly horribly overpowered. I'm glad for minnie as they suck, but tbh they need better low end ships as the bs's aren't to bad at all.

---

Originally by: dabster

---

Edited by: dabster on 25/07/2006 20:20:08
more like mining :-P


edit; omg i gotta learn to stay docked while i whorumfore

---

Originally by: Zyrtan Keb'Lektar

---

at least caldari now finaly got a mining bs

---

Originally by: Valea Silpha

---

I gotta say it:

The maelstrom lets me down in every way. I wanted a big stabber with a rack of AC's and caution being thrown to the wind.

We have ended up with the bastard child of the raven and the cyclone. Theres no specific reason to use it with arty over the tempest, and assuming its as slow as it probably will be, its not worth using with AC over the tempest either.

If it has 7 meds it will tank pretty well, but thats never been the minmatar strength.
If it has 6 meds and 6 lows, then we get an ECM + resonable armor tank boat.

Neither of that are anything like the minmatar i know and love.

---

Originally by: kessah

---

Totally agree with Valea Silpha on this one!

5% velocity bonus and 5% to Large proj dmg or rof per lvl

Shield bonus on this is totally bogus! all the other races imho are right on the money, why is it matari always gets shafted. Now ive matari spec myself im really starting to feel for all those times i flicked past the matari whines.

PLEASE CCP CHANGE THE SHIELD BOOST BONUS!

---

Originally by: Sarmaul

---

Originally by: kessah

---

Sarmaul seriously how can u welcome a Shield boost bonus, matari are ment to be versatile especially at the Battleship lvl.

Its so contricting, i fly the cyclone and i still armour tank it and i fly the raven and armour tank it, But like the cyclone u might aswell use a ferox imho and with the Maelstrom having a wasted bonus *imho* as if i used it i use it as a cyclone which sucks.

---

Nobody is forcing you to shield tank it.

TBH, I am absolutely loving the shield boost bonus but only if it gets 7 mids, otherwise it will end up being fitted like a tempest with another multispec.

---

Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol

---

im gonna be honest with you not sure why anyone would fly a Tempest over a Melstrom. Same DPS better tanking one more slot :\

---

Originally by: babylonstew

---

so all these people whining the raven can tank and gank with 6/5 slots is actually over powered, but a min ship with say 6/5 and a built in shield boost amp, so basically 7/5 for example, isnt up to scratch tanking wise?, what have i missed?
either ravens tank/gank isnt actually over powered at all, or your after a super tank with 8 turrets?

---

Quote:

---

2028.148 hp every 4 seconds with a full set of top Crystals, and the currently mythical X-Type Gist XL Booster and Gist Boost Amp.

2568.397 hp every 4 seconds with Pith X-Type XL Booster and Pith X-Type Amp.

You can run the numbers for boost calcs on a Cyclone, same boost bonus.

---

Originally by: Valea Silpha

---

The problem im seeing more than anything else (now im over it not being fast and autocannony) is that you can't kill a damn thing just by tanking it. And for that matter not being the best tank on the market. It all looks pretty good on paper, but its just not what we're about. It will run missions just fine. But i would never give up my tempy for one of these. I like that i can choose to armor or shield tank. I like that i can choose to be snipey or MWD of doom. I like that i get a double dose of damage bonus.

Line the maeltrom up against the Rokh, for example. The rokh will out tank it, there is no denying it. The rokh will also have range beyond anything achieveable by anything else. Now lets compare it to the Hyperion. The hyperion is a nasty piece of work, essentially a faster blasterthron, which will smoke our new chappy. Next against the abaddon... which is a choice between uber tank or uber gank. Im damned if the bloody ammar have a more versatile ship than we do.

---

Originally by: Valea Silpha

---

Seriously... theres some arty potential MAYBE. It out damages the tempest by half a gun. However, if it has fewer lows and similar grid, it'll mean fewer gyros...

---

Originally by: Valea Silpha

---

Its really not that much higher than a tempest in alphastrike, and as i say if it has to mount less gyros to shoehorn the guns on (remember it needs to get eight of them on) then the differance goes down. And it'll outtank the rest of the minmatar for sure. Becuase we aren't a tanktastic race. We're the speedyones, remember ?

---

Originally by: Eximius Josari

---

1072.5 hp every 4 seconds with XLSB II and one Shield Amp I.

---

Originally by: Valea Silpha

---

I can't really at the moment, and as the gallente get a new , faster, shinier blasterthron its even less likely it can be. Thats what i was hoping we'd get. A shiney, racing striped speed demon that can dictate range and compete against such things.

---

Originally by: turnschuh

---

considering pve, I wonder if the damage output is better then a raven or a typhoon with 4xac 4xcruise 5xheavy drones? anyone can do the math?

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

Originally by: Sarmaul

---

Edited by: Sarmaul on 26/07/2006 08:19:21

Originally by: Nafri

---

And dont come me with your "omg, Im in a PvP corp now, I can bash some Alliance noobs"

Im former Member Of Naginata, Reikkoku, Tundragon, Teddybears

---

I wasn't insulting G's credability as an alliance nor their PVP ability, I was poking fun at their slight fondness of ECM :)

---

ECM isnt their focus, its focus of 6million SP of mine
Basicyl its all about the team, whenever a gangmate of me will tank and not fit ECM in his mids, im going to slap him for this.

ECM = helping the team
tank = not helping the team


And even 5 BS do soo much damage, its just pointless trying to tank them, especially without insane resistances.

---

Originally by: Uther Doull

---

god... imagine autocannons with a rate of fire bonus... a maelstrom in your ammo hold :P

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

Cause it will have 6 midslots?
Forget that with the 7 midslots, the Devs know why they cant implent that.

Caldari whinage is always bad, its 70% of their mission running playerbase.
7 midslots just afk for ECM abuse, which will be the best about such a ship anyway.

I copied a post of mine from another thread, explaining some of the problems I have with the mealstrom:

Mealstrom is a pointless PvE ship.

Already discussed it in corp, has probably no use for fleets. Only cause problems for hardly an advantage.

Things you need to consider for fighting in fleets:

-Shield tanking doesnt matter
-Alphastrike works best with high damage modifier, you often fire only 3-4 guns on a ship, then it goes pop
-its all about your armor, you will fit armor plates, midslots are for tracking comps and sensor boosters
-passive tanks, Eve lags soo much, active tanks are hardly usable when there are more than 20 people in a fight

its also not really great for smaller scaled fights:

-It has bad DPS, its better to bring a typhoon
-It will be slow, for AC the tempest will be better
-It has a useless bonus, you will fit EW in midslots anyway

As you can see, the Mealstrom is outclassed in PvP by both of its brothers.

Solution:

Switch the shield boost bonus for a second ROF bonus, the mealstrom would become quite a nice artillery platform.



The whole idea of giving minmatar shield boost boni is kinda flawed. It works on the sleipnir, but only cause the sleipnir has insanly nice shield resistances. So you just need 2 modules to run a decent tank on it.
Without the restistances, people would armor tank the sleipnir like every other minmatar ship or just fit a passive tank.
The cyclone is the most boring minmatar ship ingame. Its slow, it has a uselss bonus and its ugly, no need to implent a bigger brother for it.
Whenever I have flown one, I just armored tanked it, there was just no point in a shieldtank.

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

I want double ROF on this ship, no bigger alphastrike, but finally DPS comparable to other Battleships, Im sick off that my 1400 II Tempest gets tanked by other BS easily.

Raven is good, well cause Torps work from 0km-60km, you dont have problems of getting in range, you have EW in midslots. A nice ship for small groups.

Autocannons need you to stay within 4-20km, or you cant hit, a Raven can just slowly fly away from you and lower your damage, it can also just warp on 50km on you and start pounding you.
The Mealstrom is a very bad AC plattform, and as Artillery Platform it doesnt provide enough DPS compared to other Battleships.

---

Originally by: Pesadel0

---

Yeah it is fine and dandy until the ECM balance patch .And then you will have a Super sized Cyclone with sucky damage with autocannos.

The caldaris dont complain about the raven because a raven doesnt need to worry about tracking/optimal/transversal etc.I fail to see from the description of this ship how we are going to reach another ship and warpscarmble ,web and put necessary DPS to kill it.

---

Originally by: Omatje

---

It will be ship of choice for pve over the raven but that's about it.

Ah well at least we will see more minnie ships in the future since every mission runner wants one

---

Originally by: Melkor Bloodaxe

---

Originally by: Winter Star

---

I think the best thing about this ship is how versatile the name seems to be - in this thread alone we've had:

Malestorm
Mailstrom
Mealstrom

lol

---

And then the Caldari are complaining about the Rokh/Rook

---

Originally by: erpy esa

---

Can't help but be disapointed with the shield bonus, i mean what ships do i shield tank? Vaga ... jag maybe and tempest for carebear duty thus i have very lame shield skills compared to my armor.

I'll still buy it though just have a play around, who wouldn't?

I'm also in agreement with nafri, make her a dev?

To the miner laser quote .. i hope this ship doesn't become a miner apoc type ship, it prob will.

---

Originally by: Omega Bloodstone

---

Okay, so its cool that a DEV popped in the tier 3 Caldari BS discussion and advised "rails". This means that half the game(being that half the game is Caldari by race) know what to train. I wish I had that Luxurie. Can we get an idea on the Minnie one DEVS???

---

Originally by: Wrayeth

---

In regards to the slow speed of the maelstrom, I'm pretty sure Tux is defining "slow" as "the same speed as the other races' battleships - 143m/s base with nav 5". Despite that "slow" speed, blasterthrons seem to do quite well, so I don't expect it to be too much of an issue.

However....

What will be an issue, as someone else already mentioned, is ammo consumption of 8 large autocannons with a rate of fire bonus. Even on the tempest it's hard to carry enough ammo for sustained operations far from home as you burn through it at an alarming rate, at the same time needing most of your cargo space for cap booster charges.

I see two solutions to the ammo issue. The first is just to give the maelstrom an unusually large cargo hold - something on the order of 700-750m3. The second would require a rework of autocannons to be slower firing but more heavily damaging. Frankly, I could care less which is implemented, as long as one of the two is.

---

Originally by: Severa Crest

---

This balance between Minnie and Gallente, autos and blasters is what worries me most about these new ships.

---

Originally by: Sumayyah

---

If the new BS gets 7 mids like you people want this BS could be the New PvE ship for those that have good gunnary skill \o/ Plus that would make it a pretty ubber solo ship imo. I think it would be great to give us 7 mids but come one we are minmatar and CCP hates us

---

Originally by: SengH

---

Originally by: Sumayyah

---

If the new BS gets 7 mids like you people want this BS could be the New PvE ship for those that have good gunnary skill \o/ Plus that would make it a pretty ubber solo ship imo. I think it would be great to give us 7 mids but come one we are minmatar and CCP hates us

---

I think Hammer is the only pro minnie on the CCP dev team lol. Esp after he gave all artys a 25% tracking boost a while back (VERY long long time ago).

---

Originally by: Turiel Demon

---

Even then what damage output are we looking at? maybe 700 with hail (meaning you stand still with 8 turrets)? Yeah, looks great

---

Originally by: Ath Amon

---

for close range i fear it will become another sort of nos ship (depends by drone bay) or how about a big tanked tackler?

---

Originally by: Omega Bloodstone

---

Originally by: Jim McGregor

---

Originally by: Omega Bloodstone

---

Okay, so its cool that a DEV popped in the tier 3 Caldari BS discussion and advised "rails". This means that half the game(being that half the game is Caldari by race) know what to train. I wish I had that Luxurie. Can we get an idea on the Minnie one DEVS???

---

It will have 8 turrets. Of course its going to be projectiles. Did you read the blog in General Discussions?

---

I looked all over the forums and could not find any true statistics. I looked under general discussion and was unable to locate it as well. Might be that its early as hell and my mind has not finished the morning boot-up. If you'll drop a link to it I would be very appriciative. Thanks Jim!

---

Originally by: Turiel Demon

---

If it doesn't even have 8 turrets and only a RoF bonus then that will mitagate the crappyness of RoF on AC's, but it will reduce the DPS of it's prime weapon system to 625max with daft ammo (hail)... which is just silly.

---

Originally by: Valea Silpha

---

I dunno why people are worshipping this ship as a BS sized Sleipnir. The sleipnir starts with some awesome resists, is faster than the astarte and weighs less. The maelstrom will be very slow, have base resists and no room for nos. It will only be able to boost as long as its cap charges hold out, and that to me is a significant problem.

Everything that needs to be said has been to be honest. We are supremely unlikely to get seven meds. Nothing personal against the devs, but they do have a habbit of giving the minnies a kick when they are down, and i think seven meds is a lil on the too good side. Its not significantly better than a tempest for fleet work, with the added bonus of wasting half its bonus as lag will pwn your tank for you.

The only reason the cyclone (or at least my cyclone) works is because i have 3 med nos on it to run the bloody shield booster anyway. The new thing does not get that luxury.

As you can't successfully strap autocannons to it, i submit to all and sundry its not a minmatar ship.

---

Originally by: Omega Bloodstone

---

Originally by: Kaylana Syi

---

Originally by: Wrayeth

---

I fear that the AC tempest will be completely outmoded once the hyperion enters the game. That being the case, my only hope for my beloved autocannons will devolve to the maelstrom, as the typhoon can't fill the role properly due to lack of grid and CPU.

---

Do you even fly Minmatar? Because the Typhoon certainly does have the power and cpu to field ACs and torps with a good tank AND tons of damage. Train get a clue to lvl 5 plz.

---

Very true...you can have 4 arbalist siege launchers and 4 650 II's and in the low still do a decent dual repair tank with hardeners and a plate.

---

Originally by: Valea Silpha

---

And therein lies another problem. A minmatar nos/ecm/tank platform. Well whoop de doo. I thought CCP was trying to move away from them tbh...

---

Originally by: Kaylana Syi

---

It already has a good chance to stand up to the blasterthron... and it uses barrage, torps and drones to do it on just 1 armor repair II.

---

Originally by: Kaylana Syi

---

Originally by: Jim McGregor

---

Originally by: Kaylana Syi

---

It already has a good chance to stand up to the blasterthron... and it uses barrage, torps and drones to do it on just 1 armor repair II.

---

I remember a setup you shown me before.. maybe you are talking about that one. But yeah, using barrage is basicly a must. So when is a good idea to use Hail?

---

On tempests.

---

Originally by: xeom

---

i think maelstrom should not have 7 meds

---

Originally by: xeom

---

Jim if you can shield tank(the best) and still have room for a MWD and scrabler or web its overpowered.Its something every shield tanker suffers from,just becuase you got it doesnt not exempt you from it.

---

Originally by: xeom

---

stuff

---

Originally by: xeom

---

All i see on that page jim is talk about the Hyperion.What part are you talking about?

---

Originally by: xeom

---

I just think 7 slots would be to much.I mean if it goes threw cool a new ship to camp gates with(should be deady easy).

---

Originally by: Sarmaul

---

You know, I haven't yet heard one good argument as to who it shouldn't get 8/7/4 other than the typical "meh meh meh it's not caldari so it can't have a good tank, dispite the devs saying that's the point of the ship".

---

Originally by: Raider Zero

---

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you.....the Minmatar PvE boat!

It tanks like crazy, but doesn't do a hell of a lot of damage. Sounds like a great ship for PvE so that people will maybe use something other than a Raven once in a while for missions.

One could also look at it as a Scorp on 'roids. It will make a capable sniper boat too. Also a good miner, but not as good as the new Gallente mining ship-the Hyperion. (lol)

---

Originally by: Boris2k

---

what about these custom "rigs" u will be able to attach.. what effect would that have?

---

Originally by: Boris2k

---

i meant could you use them to make this thing something uber?

---

Originally by: Winter Star

---

Have you read the Hyperion thread? Just as many whiners in there as in here.....

it's got bad tracking
the cap bonus is useless
no drones omg!!11

are some of the things falling out of the sky in that thread

Greener grass......?

---

Originally by: Rafein

---

Hmm, I wonder if it is possible to make the ship absorb more damage the the gallente can do?

I mean, 2 Pith Shield BOost Amplifiers and an Crystal Set, with Minnie BS 5, your getting close to what, 125% shield boost? Through in a Pith-X X-large shield boost, it's 840 for 400 cap (360 with compensation), every 4 seconds, so your looking at near 1900 boost every 4 seconds. With only 3 mids used, even 3 invuln fields and a Damage control in a low, should get you close to 60% resists vs. all. Then siple add Power Diags in the lows for cap recharge, and to boost shield and shield recharge at same time, and well, can any non-capital kill this thing without NOS?

---

Originally by: Lonectzn

---

For the record I was hoping on a vagapest, 8/6/6.

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

Originally by: Aloysius Knight

---

Originally by: SengH

---

Edited by: SengH on 27/07/2006 12:18:19
going by chirrba's leaked stats here

3 max locked targets WTF?
460m sig radius LOL
115m/s (Same speed as raven) Want me to get out and push?
21 points ladar strenghth (Got jammed?)
90nm scan res (So much for being able to lock first)

Rokh has 7 mid slots and MORE SHIELD.

Yay for balanced ships.........

---

hey there just catering to the whims of the whining caldari mass's

---

which is relly increadible:


125.000.000 vs 130.000.000

and that on the left is the minmatar ship.

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

for me it loooks like the hyperion will be a very nice longrange fleetship


it has damage, it has armor, it has midslots and it can even use a mwd easily.

---

Originally by: Nafri

---

Originally by: Jim McGregor

---

Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 13:27:39

Originally by: Nafri

---

for me it loooks like the hyperion will be a very nice longrange fleetship


it has damage, it has armor, it has midslots and it can even use a mwd easily.

---

Its supposed to have a really crappy targeting range though. The Caldari Rokh is probably better for that purpose, specially since you get range bonuses and 7 med slots on it.

---

it has 50km for now, enough to fight in 90% of the fleetfights, and it does really nice damage.


Perfect for gallente who wants to fight around 100km

---

Originally by: Omega Bloodstone

---

Everyone, I know some folks are upset at the Minnie tier 3 at the moment. But one thing I have thought about is the combination of shield amps with Minnie BS lvl 5. I mean damn!!!! It will rep shield hard. So, based on a possible 6 mid slot option you could go:

XL shield booster named or tech II, em shield hardener II because its tier 1 and EM will need compensation for, tech II inv. field x's 2, a shield amp (CCP put the tech II version out now for this ship please!!!), and then a large extender II. Combine this with the 37.5% shield boost at BS level 5(note the amp adds 30%!!! to this for 67.5% total boost)and WOW!!! likely the best shield tank in the game with only 6 slots. (though I wish there was 7). Its actually prolly gonna be a damn good ship if not for the tank alone.

---

Originally by: Testy Mctest

---

It has an Invuln field that is unaffected by stacking penalty built in.

As I said elsewhere, I dont mind the Rokh having a better bonus, as long as the ships as a whole are balanced - which with these stats, they arent.

---